Title: Rare and unusual aircraft | |
Generalhistory > General > General Discussion | Go to subcategory: |
Author | Content |
majorshrapnel | |
Date Posted:2023-03-10 01:20:03Copy HTML The BritishTSR2. This superb, highly advanced strike and reconnaissance aircraft is known in aviation circles as the plane that was shot down by its own government, as it never saw service or action. It was and still is, surrounded by mystery, conspiracy and conjecture. It was given a remarkable specification at birth, all of which were achieved and more. For a start it had to gain flight in under 600 yards and reach Mach 1.1 at ground level (200ft max) and Mach 2.2 at medium to high altitude, carry a nuclear bomb to Russia, dogfight with the best and remember we are dealing with an aircraft conceived in the 50's. It would have both front and side seeking radar and its Bristol Siddeley engines would later be fitted to the Concorde but only after the TSR2 had sorted its many faults out.The British aircraft industry had come out of WW2 as one of the very best, innovative designers and builders and with a nuclear Soviet Union to tend to the west needed such a high specification aircraft. The problem with the industry though was that we had no war to feed it and with an almost bankrupt nation it had too many companies chasing too few contracts, which led to a poison atmosphere in the industry and its various manufacturers, all stoked by political favouritism. The answer was the amalgamation of them to form BAC the British Aircraft Corporation and it was this company that would build the TSR2, all be it around the country, which became its first fault. Before it had been laid fully out it suffered political interference and design tampering, all of which began to raise the time and cost of it. Eventually it took to the air and it was spectacular and no exaggeration to say it was the finest aircraft on earth. Unfortunately it had just too many enemies, both at home and abroad, most notably the US with its rival F111. At home there was Louis Mountbatten a devoted navy man who wanted money for the Royal Navy. The RAF had 126 aircraft on order and the first overseas order was 30 for Australia but then we sent its biggest enemy to Australia in Mountbatten who then did his best to scupper the deal. In 1964 the Labour govt under Wilson came to power and the new PM visited the US to meet Johnson, a President who had been putting pressure on the Aussies to cancel their order and buy the F111 at a rock bottom price, ie under cost and between them they had the order cancelled with no objection from Wilson, who was after US loans and feared they would scupper his plans to borrow money from the IMF. Attacked from both sides the project was suddenly cancelled but not only was it cancelled but the political order went out that all built airframes, machines and tooling was to be destroyed and it was, including a wooden mock up, so that there would be no chance of another change of mind. The only change of mind was that we then bought 50 F111's from the Yanks. The govt wouldn't even allow the manufacturers to keep one for research, not one, it had to go, lock, stock and barrel and were even used as target practice. However, two in various states of finish were kept aside and they do survive and are on show at RAF Duxford museum. |
|
pbandrew3rd | Share to: #201 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2023-12-31 07:51:23Copy HTML Talking about cars buckling in the middle, did I ever tell you about my MG midget? I's sure I did but I'll give you a refresher. I was towing my brother in law in a monster Vauxhall and being lads in our early twenties, ie no brains, I was pulling him down a long road and managed to get up to 60 MPH before we came to a roundabout. As you may know, the secret to towing is to keep the rope taught at all times and that's the duty of the car being towed. He let it go slack just as I put my foot down. My poor little car was virtually lifted off the floor by the force and the chassis snapped on both sides just behind the front seats, making the car dip in the middle and once I opened the doors I was unable to ever shut them properly again, so I kept them closed using an air elastic from one door to the other, pulling it back with my elbows so I could steer. I had a Vauxhall for one of my first cars. I lost first and third gear and had to drive it around in second and fourth. A bit of a bitch starting off on a hill in snowy weather |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #202 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-01-12 03:22:01Copy HTML The Westland Whirlwind is an interesting read. Had some impressive armament with its engines being the Achilles Heel. |
|
pbandrew3rd | Share to: #203 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-02-06 12:26:14Copy HTML |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #204 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-08 11:02:01Copy HTML There are spectacular planes and there are planes that become spectacular and none more so than the F4 Phantom. It is the most widely sold aircraft in US history, with 5,195 built and changed arial warfare. It derived from the F3 but with a radical modification of the wing design. The new fighter was revealed in 1958 and was radically different from its parent having upturned front wing ends and downturned rear wings to improve lateral stability. Twin engined and unusually twin operators too, a pilot and radar operator. It was considered that a pilot had enough to do flying the plane without being a radar operator too and would therefore be more proficient, although if necessary the navigator could also fly the plane. The first squadron was deployed at sea in 1961 as it was a carrier based aircraft as well as a ground fighter. It was rapid, handled beautifully and soon became a favourite of all who flew it, breaking many various records along the way. The US had an embarrassment of different manufacturers of fighters at the time but Mc Donnell eclipsed them with this beauty. Because of its large square inlets it was nicknamed the flying brick and although it was a pilot's favourite the same could't be said for its mechanics, as like the English Electric lightening here, apparently you had to remove the engines to carry out many basic repairs. In the Vietnam war it managed a multitude of tasks to become a multi role aircraft, you name it, the Phantom did it. A brilliant aircraft. |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #205 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-08 11:12:22Copy HTML My favorite jet fighter. We have one on display at a local American Legion. Some said with the aerodynamics that it couldn't fly. They say the same about a bumble bee. |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #206 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-08 07:55:01Copy HTML Back in 72 I was subbing (subcontracting) on a corporation site where my job was central heating the old corpo houses. It was a great job and whilst there a new lad rolled up 'posing' as a plumber and he soon sought me out to help him. At first I wasn't interested but when he told me he was ex navy, had a family and had been on one of the notorious govt training schemes, who professed to turn out plumbers in 12 weeks, I gave him a hand. He had been on carriers and during our conversations I remember him talking about the F4, which he loved and the awesome sight of one leaving the deck in the dark, enveloped in flames and a chest vibrating noise. I'd loved to have experience that. The landing's too, which were also stunningly exciting. As long ago as 1959 it set a world wow altitude record of 98,000 ft, which is not far off actual orbit and instead of seeing blue sky above them the pilots saw only black, the blackness of space. There was a period in Vietnam where the MIG's 19 and 21 began to get the better of the Phantom but this was not down to the plane but to the malfunctioning Sidewinder missiles they carried. The Sidewinder was to become one of the greatest airborne missiles of all time when it was sorted out and given to us during the Falkland's war by the Yanks, which gave us air superiority over the Islands, despite being vastly outnumbered. There are actually countries in the world still using the F4 for front line service, most notably Iran. |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #207 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-08 08:31:42Copy HTML After the F-4 was taken off front-line service here, they served as Wild Weasels. The F-4 was the ride in the movie The Great Santini starring my favorite actor Robert Duvall. |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #208 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-09 07:52:59Copy HTML After the F-4 was taken off front-line service here, they served as Wild Weasels. The F-4 was the ride in the movie The Great Santini starring my favorite actor Robert Duvall. Great actor. I think his first roll was in 'To kill mocking bird' One of the greatest films of all time. |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #209 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-09 09:40:47Copy HTML Normally, both the Russians and the US, build planes specifically designed for one job but in the F4 the Yanks had a multi roll aircraft. Its nemesis in the Vietnam war though was not, the MIG 21, it was built solely as an interceptor and an off the shelf one too. Build quality wise there was no comparison as the MIG was a throw away machine but its success against the F4 was responsible for the whole modern structure of the US airforce. It was responsible for shooting down the very first B52 bomber, an aircraft that was seen as quite invulnerable until then and it shot it down using a US Sidewinder missile, or should I say, an exact Russian copy of it. The Russians were way behind the Yanks in missile technology but a freak accident was to change all that. The Taiwanese airforce in 1958, in its war with China, was operating with Sabres using the new A9 Sidewinder missiles and in an extraordinary incident one of them fired off a missile and hit a MIG 17 but it failed to explode and the MIG landed back with it wedged into the fuselage. It was immediately packed off to Moscow where the Russians reproduced it as the Vympel K13. In the words of one of the engineers.... it was like a US university offering us a course in missile technology. It went on to become the most produced supersonic fighter plane of all time and was the very reason the US began its Top Gun school. |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #210 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-22 08:39:11Copy HTML This Chitty Chitty Bang Bang plane was not only an ugly duckling it was actually called a duck, the Curtis Goupil Duck. It was originally a French design by one Alexander Goupil as late back as the 1880's and steam driven then reproduced by Glen Curtis in 1910 and yet again in the 1930's in collaboration with the French company Societe Generale. It was actually capable of a range of roles including reconnaissance, anti sub warfare and convoy escort. It operated from both land and sea and carried not only machine guns but bombs too. It was incredibly reliable and actually served throughout the war. |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #211 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-04-22 12:55:17Copy HTML The Glen Curtis Museum is in nearby Hammondsport, N.Y. in the Finger Lakes Region & a must visit. Lots of wineries too. |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #212 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-09 01:58:34Copy HTML This short arsed runt is the McDonnell XF85 Goblin fighter, or parasite fighter as the airforce knew it. It was built to fit in and under bomber aircraft to supply fighter cover when needed, most notably the comically named B36 'Peacemaker' the giant reverse, six engined, propellor driven leviathan or the Superfortress. The Goblin was only 14ft long and 21ft wide, with folding wings and a single turbo jet engine. Great idea on paper but it came with too many problems, such as stability, visibility for the pilot and handling. Only two were ever built because it was ultimately realised that it would not be able to compete with the new Soviet fighters when it met them. |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #213 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-09 04:39:23Copy HTML An ugly duckling for sure. I wonder what the cost factor was with this monstrosity? |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #214 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-14 11:25:44Copy HTML You could be forgiven for thinking a steam powered plane could only exist in the film, Chity Chity Bang Bang, the sequel but no, here it is, the Besler steam plane and what an ingenious aircraft it was, doomed from the start of course but brilliantly nutty. Steam cars were quite common and some of them were surprisingly fast, reliable, comfortable and of course, extremely quiet in comparison to it's fire breathing petrol driven cousin. If you sat down to write a list of steam powered machines it would take you longer that expected. Take a nuclear submarine for instance, yep, a steam engine, as the nuclear reactor is only there to make steam. There is a catalogue of disastrous attempts at steam powered flight, which singed more than a few eyebrows over the years but the Besler brothers, George and William from Ohio, achieved the miracle that was successful steam powered flight. They began by converting a Travel Air 2000 biplane to accommodate a 2 cylinder steam engine which first flew in 1933 and was so quiet the pilot could talk to people on the ground as he passed. The engine was not of their own making, it was made by the Doble Steam Car Company (Abner Doble) who were at the pinnacle of luxury steam cars, including one which had a push button start no less. One of the other great things about a steam aircraft was it could land and stop in 40 yards by simply putting the engine in reverse and the prop stopped you. It could never have been more than a 'first' a novelty as it's flying time was 15 minutes maximum. It still exists and is in the National Air and Space Museum in Washington. |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #215 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-14 11:44:53Copy HTML Major, what fuel makes the steam in this airplane? |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #216 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-14 12:13:23Copy HTML Major, what fuel makes the steam in this airplane? I've got an image in my mind of a man stood at the back shovelling coal into it with a flat cap and black face. Apparently there were a few combinations of fuel for this kind of steam engine but it would be almost certainly be a mixture of coal dust and petrol or kerosene |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #217 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-14 12:34:17Copy HTML That was my first thought. Coal fired boilers like Titanic. |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #218 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-14 01:01:58Copy HTML As we know, if you atomise (ground to fine dust) many things and add them to funnelled air at pressure, they will explode with an ignition of some kind. Flour, woodust, sugar, coal, certain rocks, serials such as wheat and barley, metals, plaster etc. The fuel for the plane would have been in a form of atomisation and if paraffin was used, it would have been even hotter as it's a more refined form of kerosene. |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #219 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-14 01:12:05Copy HTML All of us did not know that. I feel much wiser now Major, thank you. |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #220 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-14 01:40:30Copy HTML As the Yanks would say..... Just doin' mar doodie |
|
majorshrapnel | Share to: #221 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-16 12:13:57Copy HTML So you think you're the only ones capable of building short arsed runts? Well cop for that! I give you exhibit A on the left, which is the spymaster's best friend, the Westland Lysander and its Frankenstein offspring, the Westland Wendover, which is a Lysander, which has been cut in half and had somebody else's arse transplanted on. It was Westland's silly answer to having so many Lysanders shot out of the sky at the start of WW2 118 in just two months to be exact., so they thought to cut off the rear and fit a bomber type turret with a twin boom to keep it stable. As you can imagine the government placed no orders and it flew off into the sunset and was never seen again. The Lysander by comparison could land on a tennis court and performed stirling duty throughout the war as a clandestine delivery vehicle for the secret services. It delivered huge amounts of arms and ammunition to the French resistance and carried in and out of France, hundreds of men and women. It really was an unsung hero. |
|
tommytalldog | Share to: #222 |
Re:Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted:2024-05-16 04:45:42Copy HTML Well Major, size does matter. |