|
| Title: Rare and unusual aircraft | |
| Generalhistory > General > General Discussion | Go to subcategory： |
| Author | Content |
majorshrapnel
|
|
|
Date Posted：2023-03-10 01:20:03Copy HTML The BritishTSR2. This superb, highly advanced strike and reconnaissance aircraft is known in aviation circles as the plane that was shot down by its own government, as it never saw service or action. It was and still is, surrounded by mystery, conspiracy and conjecture. It was given a remarkable specification at birth, all of which were achieved and more. For a start it had to gain flight in under 600 yards and reach Mach 1.1 at ground level (200ft max) and Mach 2.2 at medium to high altitude, carry a nuclear bomb to Russia, dogfight with the best and remember we are dealing with an aircraft conceived in the 50's. It would have both front and side seeking radar and its Bristol Siddeley engines would later be fitted to the Concorde but only after the TSR2 had sorted its many faults out.The British aircraft industry had come out of WW2 as one of the very best, innovative designers and builders and with a nuclear Soviet Union to tend to the west needed such a high specification aircraft. The problem with the industry though was that we had no war to feed it and with an almost bankrupt nation it had too many companies chasing too few contracts, which led to a poison atmosphere in the industry and its various manufacturers, all stoked by political favouritism. The answer was the amalgamation of them to form BAC the British Aircraft Corporation and it was this company that would build the TSR2, all be it around the country, which became its first fault. Before it had been laid fully out it suffered political interference and design tampering, all of which began to raise the time and cost of it. Eventually it took to the air and it was spectacular and no exaggeration to say it was the finest aircraft on earth. Unfortunately it had just too many enemies, both at home and abroad, most notably the US with its rival F111. At home there was Louis Mountbatten a devoted navy man who wanted money for the Royal Navy. The RAF had 126 aircraft on order and the first overseas order was 30 for Australia but then we sent its biggest enemy to Australia in Mountbatten who then did his best to scupper the deal. In 1964 the Labour govt under Wilson came to power and the new PM visited the US to meet Johnson, a President who had been putting pressure on the Aussies to cancel their order and buy the F111 at a rock bottom price, ie under cost and between them they had the order cancelled with no objection from Wilson, who was after US loans and feared they would scupper his plans to borrow money from the IMF. Attacked from both sides the project was suddenly cancelled but not only was it cancelled but the political order went out that all built airframes, machines and tooling was to be destroyed and it was, including a wooden mock up, so that there would be no chance of another change of mind. The only change of mind was that we then bought 50 F111's from the Yanks. The govt wouldn't even allow the manufacturers to keep one for research, not one, it had to go, lock, stock and barrel and were even used as target practice. However, two in various states of finish were kept aside and they do survive and are on show at RAF Duxford museum. |
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#151
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-11 12:18:56Copy HTML Pete, by ejection meant he got out of the plane safely. Ejected means the same as pushed, flung, assisted or catapulted from an a/c. Because of not having an ejection seat many didn't get out of the Spitfires. The only thing that saved many over the first war was now they were wearing a personnel chute. I know what you were trying to mean Tommy but it's was the use of the word ejection being used wrong. Don't let it happen again or we will force you to tell us about you and your hunting buddies cabin trips. Well Pete, there you go again with assumptions. You know what happens at the cabin stays at the cabin. Besides, I am a Navy vet & a former altar boy so I had ejection confused with ejaculation. |
pbandrew3rd
|
Share to:
#152
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-12 03:54:06Copy HTML Pete, by ejection meant he got out of the plane safely. Ejected means the same as pushed, flung, assisted or catapulted from an a/c. Because of not having an ejection seat many didn't get out of the Spitfires. The only thing that saved many over the first war was now they were wearing a personnel chute. I know what you were trying to mean Tommy but it's was the use of the word ejection being used wrong. Don't let it happen again or we will force you to tell us about you and your hunting buddies cabin trips. Well Pete, there you go again with assumptions. You know what happens at the cabin stays at the cabin. Besides, I am a Navy vet & a former altar boy so I had ejection confused with ejaculation. Yes heard a lot about those hairy arses (navy types) and the altar boys how they got their high voices |
|
pbandrew3rd
|
Share to:
#153
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-13 04:10:10Copy HTML
Does anyone know what this V-12 Rolls-Royce Meteor Engine powered? |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#154
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-13 08:06:50Copy HTML Tanks. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#155
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-13 08:11:49Copy HTML The ejection seat was pioneered by the British company Martin Baker. They built what was called the best plane never to take part in the war. Martin was Irish and Baker was a WW1 pilot. Baker crashed on take off and was burned to death, which devastated Martin, who was spurred into producing the first election seats. |
|
pbandrew3rd
|
Share to:
#156
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-13 10:25:39Copy HTML Tanks. Yes the engine we had in the Centurion Tank. It went thought between 3 1/2 to 4 gallons of high test gas to travel a mile. We also had a 4 cylinder Austin engine to charge the batteries when the main engine was shut down and it could also run the gunnery equipment. You can tell it's a British tank by looking where I have to sit on the right side to drive it.
|
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#157
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-13 10:46:44Copy HTML
Does anyone know what this V-12 Rolls-Royce Meteor Engine powered? Let me take a wild guess......................some kind of a tank?????????? |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#158
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-13 07:41:42Copy HTML Tanks. Yes the engine we had in the Centurion Tank. It went thought between 3 1/2 to 4 gallons to travel a mile. We also had a 4 cylinder Austin engine to charge the batteries when the main engine was shut down and it could also run the gunnery equipment. You can tell it's a British tank by looking where I have to sit on the right side to drive it.
The Centurion was one of the greatest tanks of all time and was the tank that saved Israel. Know why they are called tanks? because the factory that originally building them in secret was said to be a water tank manufacturers., hence tanks. |
|
pbandrew3rd
|
Share to:
#159
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-15 05:05:34Copy HTML Tanks. Yes the engine we had in the Centurion Tank. It went thought between 3 1/2 to 4 gallons to travel a mile. We also had a 4 cylinder Austin engine to charge the batteries when the main engine was shut down and it could also run the gunnery equipment. You can tell it's a British tank by looking where I have to sit on the right side to drive it.
The Centurion was one of the greatest tanks of all time and was the tank that saved Israel. Know why they are called tanks? because the factory that originally building them in secret was said to be a water tank manufacturers., hence tanks. At the time of the cold war they could take on any Russian one and win. With the finally Mark # we had they had 12 inches of slopped armour in front and unlike the Russian tanks we keep our main rounds under the floor boards and directly behind that heavy frontal armour. The turrets also didn't blow off the tank when hit by a round like the Russians tank still do. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#160
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 11:39:50Copy HTML Following WW2 came the rise and separation of the Soviet Union, which dominated all of the eastern European countries and wanted the rest of it too, thus began the arms race and that race was responsible for some of the most innovative designs in aviation history.The Brits were the first to design and build a jet aircraft, the Gloster Meteor but did you know that work began on it in 1940 and it flew as early as March 1943? It first saw combat in The great Frank Whittle was responsible for this quantum leap in aircraft with his brilliant concept of the jet engine. He had grappled with the problem of powering the intake fan which he finally resolved in his sleep in 1936. Have you ever had a problem on your mind when you went to bed and suddenly woke up in the night with the answer? I have on a couple of occasions when I had problems with my race engines. The Meteor saw a little service in the war but following it it was produced for 12 years and sold in the hundreds around the world. Virtually everybody has heard of Britain's first jet plane but how many know what was the second? The Meteor in fact was not a great aircraft but what followed it was and that was the De Havilland Vampire a twin boomed aircraft (like the P51) but unlike the Meteor it only had one engine and what an engine. It was De Havilland's own and was named the Goblin. By today's standards it's a whimper but back then it was so powerful the Vampire became our first single engined jet plane. It might surprise you to know that like their most famous aircraft, the Mosquito, part of the fuselage was made of wood, which is not surprising as work began on it in 1941 and it actually made its maiden flight in 1943, only a few months after the Meteor and actually took part in WW2 at the very end and then led the victory flypast over London after the war. It became the first RAF plane to top 500 MPH and with the legendary 'Winkle' Brown at the controls became the first ever jet to land on an aircraft carrier. It also became the first jet to fly over 59,000ft and the first jet fighters to cross the Atlantic. It became a huge export success for Britain following the war being sold to thirty countries. Although it was superseded in this country within nine years, even by the revamped Gloster Meteor no less, the last of them served in lesser roles until 1966 and it served throughout the world for decades to come and unbelievably the last active service Vampire wasn't retired by the Swiss until 1990. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#161
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 11:43:49Copy HTML
Thar she be. |
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#162
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 01:11:11Copy HTML Major, the P-51 twin boomed or am I reading this wrong? |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#163
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 01:42:21Copy HTML You're right, my mistake, the P51 is the Mustang I meant the P38. I'm confusing my Peeing. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#164
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 01:45:52Copy HTML When I said that the Goblin engine was a whimper by today's standards the Goblin had 4,000 Ib's of thrust, you can add another 40,000 to that for today's jet fighters. |
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#165
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 02:00:24Copy HTML You're right, my mistake, the P51 is the Mustang I meant the P38. I'm confusing my Peeing. Yes, P38 the model that took down Yamamoto. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#166
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 03:18:41Copy HTML I remember covering a lot of the P38 when I was discussing Charles Lindburgh. |
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#167
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 07:05:34Copy HTML The P38 was an excellent airplane. When you get a little long in the tooth you get a little short with the Peeing, Major. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#168
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-10-31 07:58:12Copy HTML True Tom but I'm not in nappies just yet (diapers to you colonialists) |
|
pbandrew3rd
|
Share to:
#169
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-11-02 06:58:45Copy HTML You're right, my mistake, the P51 is the Mustang I meant the P38. I'm confusing my Peeing. Yes, P38 the model that took down Yamamoto. The P51 was nicknamed the Cadillac of the Sky my the men that flew them. Tell Art about the Red Tails Tommy and how they were rated by the bomber crews over Germany. |
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#170
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-11-03 12:44:51Copy HTML The Red Tails were the Tuskegee Airmen who were all Negroes & their squadron of P-51's all had their tail-fins painted red. They had a very distinguished record escorting bombers over Europe during WWII & were highly sought after by the bomber crews for escort duty. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#171
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-11-03 11:18:56Copy HTML I've known about them for a very long time Pete. As for the P51 did you know that the British set up a commission in the US in 1938 with the purpose of buying military equipment? As far as aircraft were concerned we didn't think the US had much of value, with the Curtiss P40 being the only aircraft considered suitable but Curtiss were already working to capacity in supplying the US airforce and the Brits were now more interested in their new model they had in the pipeline, the XP 46 but it proved to be a disappointment as it was no better than the P40, however there were features in it that were to be used in the P51 but it wouldn't be built by Curtiss it would be built by North American, who through negotiation with the British Purchasing Commission, who said they would place a large order for it, providing it was built with certain British demands, obtained a licence from Curtiss for the XP46 and from that blueprint fresh eyes produced the NA73X, the prototype Mustang. One of its great features was the Laminar flow wing, a wing that is more symmetrical and ironically was invented by a German named Ludwig Prandtl. North American had at the time a superb wind tunnel with which to perfect this and other design features. The prototype flew at the end of 1940. As we know, it was powered by an Alison engine, which was a good engine at lower levels but it only had a single stage supercharger, whose performance was diminished at high altitude. In the hands of the RAF they were first used for low level attacks and reconnaissance. One of the unsung heroes of the Mustang story was a British test pilot working for Rolls, Ronald Harker, who suggested they stick a Merlin 61 in it. This was the engine from possibly the best Spit of all time, the MK10 with Sir Stanley Hooker's two stage, two speed supercharger on it. It was a revelation and a legend was born. This plane could do 440MPH climb to 42,000Ft with an astonishing range of 1600 miles and was a full 100MPH faster than the Alison powered craft. Of course, from there it was still to undergo lots of improvements along the way and the last model is quite different than the first with the bubble screen making the most visual difference. One of the side effects of the need for hundreds of these planes was that Rolls couldn't keep up with demand and so the British government agreed to hand over the blueprints for the Merlin to the Yanks. They, in typical Yankie fashion, threw out Rolls instructions for manufacture as being too pedantic and streamlined the whole process to suite themselves. The Mustang is seen as a symbol of the cross Atlantic alliance, where the two allies come together to produce a masterpiece for the common good. They nicknamed it 'the Cadillac of the skies but really it was the Rolls Royce of the skies. |
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#172
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-11-03 12:17:57Copy HTML Pedantic Major? Those pesky details you Brits are so fond of needed to be cast aside for the current need. The American method of mass production has always been 100 pieces per hour with 10 failures is better than 20 pieces per hour with zero failures. That is why we are the arsenal of democracy & the savior of mankind in the 20th century. |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#173
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-11-03 01:10:03Copy HTML Pedantic Major? Those pesky details you Brits are so fond of needed to be cast aside for the current need. The American method of mass production has always been 100 pieces per hour with 10 failures is better than 20 pieces per hour with zero failures. That is why we are the arsenal of democracy & the savior of mankind in the 20th century. You just can't stop Rolls Royce being Rolls Royce Tom. As for failures, as annoying as an engine break down is, it's all right on a road but at 30,000ft? Or even worse, 100ft. So if your life depended on it which engine would you pick, the Rolls built one or the American? |
|
majorshrapnel
|
Share to:
#174
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-11-03 01:23:38Copy HTML Two stories for you about Rolls reliability Tom. A man broke down in his Rolls car in France some years ago. He phones Rolls, who sent a mechanic by helicopter to repair it. When he got home no bill arrived so he contacted Rolls who told him they had no record of it, adding Rolls Royces don't break down. My dad drove a Phantom V, the same one you always see the queen in and he broke down on the motorway. He went to the nearest phone and rang the breakdown service who asked him what car he was driving, so he said a Rolls Royce. The lady on the other side thought he was joking and asked again. A Rolls he said, now come on sir, she said, what car is it. He ended up screaming down the phone after more of this IT'S A BLOODY ROLLS ROYCE. They sent out a mechanic who said he had attended literally thousands of breakdowns over the years of every kind of car but never a Rolls before. |
|
tommytalldog
|
Share to:
#175
|
|
Re：Rare and unusual aircraft Date Posted：2023-11-03 06:18:08Copy HTML Well Major, we built the Rolls over here too. |
