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| Title: Anglo Egyptian War 1882 | |
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majorshrapnel
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Date Posted：2022-12-14 03:29:11Copy HTML This war, begun in 1882, was the starting shot in a long history of British involvement in Egypt, which also saw them fight in the Sanai, Sudan, in both world wars and finally in the Suez crisis of 1956. Before the intervention by Britain Egypt had been ruled by the Ottoman Turks for 300 years or so. In the early years of the 19th century it had been autonomously ruled by Muhammed Ali and it would be his Grandson, Ishmael Pasha, who would seek to expel all unwanted foreigners and build Egypt into a modern, European type state. Ishmael began a huge spending spree to turn Cairo into a French style city, build the Suez canal and get himself his very own empire, from the Med, through Sudan and all the way to Uganda. It was Ismael who hired Chinese Gordon, as everybody knew him then before history retitled him Gordon of Khartoum. Gordon would be given the title Governor of Sudan, run his army and frankly you couldn't get a better man. Now, Sudan was not too happy with Ishmael's plans for them and under their leader, the Mahdi, rose up in revolt. Meanwhile, his extravagance at home had put the country in deep debt and to pay that debt he borrowed money at extravagant rates of interest. Now being dragged deeper into debt he decided to sell his 40% share of the Suez canal and who do you think bought it? Yep, the Brits, |
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tommytalldog
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#1
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-14 03:39:45Copy HTML Bought it, more like extorted it. And had control over it until Nassar nationalized everything in 1956. |
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majorshrapnel
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#2
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-14 05:03:55Copy HTML Tommylad, do I detect a whiff of skepticism on the breeze? Now, if you were selling the Mustang, who would you sell it to? The highest bidder? |
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tommytalldog
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#3
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-14 06:12:42Copy HTML Now Major, when you negotiate for anything you always get the best deal when you have the power. GB had the power in 1875 not so in 1956. Hence the good deal bad deal. |
MarkUK
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#4
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-14 06:52:39Copy HTML The Khedive of Egypt was willing to sell his shares to either GB or France, but it was the Brits who came up with the money first, some of it underwritten by the Rothschild Bankers. You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning.
Arnold Bennett
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tommytalldog
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#5
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-14 07:30:39Copy HTML Yes & as always the Jews are behind all devious activities. |
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majorshrapnel
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#6
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-14 07:53:17Copy HTML Fact was, the Brits got it for £4,000.000, which was cheap really. Ishmael threw it into the economy but it was all blown in a year and Egypt was bankrupted once again and forced into accepting a humiliating agreement whereby Britain and France effectively took over his government |
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MarkUK
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#7
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-14 09:43:51Copy HTML Egypt was nominally part of the Ottoman Empire until GB annexed it in December 1914, the anniversary of which is in a few days time. The French had been quietly sidelined by then with promises from the British that they wouldn't interfere in French expansion in Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco if they left Egypt to them. You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning.
Arnold Bennett
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tommytalldog
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#8
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-15 12:02:44Copy HTML Egypt was nominally part of the Ottoman Empire until GB annexed it in December 1914, the anniversary of which is in a few days time. The French had been quietly sidelined by then with promises from the British that they wouldn't interfere in French expansion in Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco if they left Egypt to them. Well the Brits got a better deal here, with Suez being key to trade routes to India & Asia. |
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majorshrapnel
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#9
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-15 11:05:30Copy HTML In hock up to their necks to various bankers, investors and governments Ishmael made a grave error by cutting the army's pay by half and of course they revolted, led by an Egyptian officer by the name of Ahmed Urabi. Ishmael was now forced into sacking his European ministers and followed that up by simply cancelling all his country's debts. As Egypt was technically still part of Turkey the European governments put pressure on them and they dutifully got shut of him and reinstated their debt. Control effectively lay in the hands of Urabi now and he switched back to a more nationalistic stance and as a result the Brits sent 15 various warships and the French sent five, who all parked themselves off the coast of Alexandria to show Urabi they meant business but so did the Egyptians as they murdered around 50 Europeans in the city. The French decided they didn't want anything further to do with the situation and pulled out but the Brits delivered an ultimatum which demanded they stop fortifying the forts overlooking his fleet. They ignored it and battle commenced. It lasted for several hours until one shell hit the Egyptian magazine and and they ceased firing. A truce was called and negotiations commenced. Tragically many shells had landed in the city and it was now burning out of control. Egyptians only added to this by looting European properties and setting them on fire. Urabi now took control of all the Egyptian forces and they rallied to his cause.... Egypt for the Egyptians. His first act was to seize the Suez canal, which was in effect a declaration of war. |
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tommytalldog
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#10
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-15 01:35:43Copy HTML The French have never been very good Allies but they do quit well. Control of the Suez was vital then as it is now. |
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majorshrapnel
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#11
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-15 04:04:24Copy HTML The French have never been very good Allies but they do quit well. Control of the Suez was vital then as it is now. Who was it that once said, if you think the US make a bad enemy, just wait until they're your friends. |
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majorshrapnel
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#12
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-15 04:43:19Copy HTML As for the Suez canal, it cut 5000 miles off the journey to India and at this time, 80% off shipping travelling down it was British. In the past Turkey might have got involved in this war on their territory but they were in serious decline and labelled 'the sick man of Europe.' Nowadays it's Europe that's the sick man of Europe. In today's world. if you belong to certain countries. you can't be held responsible for your own stupidity and thus it was for Egypt and its leaders, even today, they wouldn't take responsibility for their own historic actions and still remain blameless. They were so desperate to get their hands on European money, they threw all sense to the wall and accepted loans at eye watering interest rates and when you're talking about £100,000.000? Well? It's as if they walked into the banks and said, don't bother telling me the interest rate, I'll take it. I think 50% of Parliament had money in the country and as for Disraeli, that hypocrite had 37% of his entire fortune invested in Egyptian shares. Egypt went bust in 1876 and the Brits did nothing on the ground, they just threatened Turkey instead but when Suez was threatened by the new and emerging nationalism, they had no choice but to intervene. |
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tommytalldog
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#13
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-15 05:09:19Copy HTML The French have never been very good Allies but they do quit well. Control of the Suez was vital then as it is now. Who was it that once said, if you think the US make a bad enemy, just wait until they're your friends. There is historical significance to bear this out. |
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tommytalldog
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#14
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-15 10:26:02Copy HTML As for the Suez canal, it cut 5000 miles off the journey to India and at this time, 80% off shipping travelling down it was British. In the past Turkey might have got involved in this war on their territory but they were in serious decline and labelled 'the sick man of Europe.' Nowadays it's Europe that's the sick man of Europe. In today's world. if you belong to certain countries. you can't be held responsible for your own stupidity and thus it was for Egypt and its leaders, even today, they wouldn't take responsibility for their own historic actions and still remain blameless. They were so desperate to get their hands on European money, they threw all sense to the wall and accepted loans at eye watering interest rates and when you're talking about £100,000.000? Well? It's as if they walked into the banks and said, don't bother telling me the interest rate, I'll take it. I think 50% of Parliament had money in the country and as for Disraeli, that hypocrite had 37% of his entire fortune invested in Egyptian shares. Egypt went bust in 1876 and the Brits did nothing on the ground, they just threatened Turkey instead but when Suez was threatened by the new and emerging nationalism, they had no choice but to intervene. Good read Art. |
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majorshrapnel
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#15
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-16 12:59:37Copy HTML Urabi's revolt and annexation of the Suez canal could not be tolerated and Britain sent an army to confront him. It consisted of 20.000 British army regulars and 7000 Indians, mostly Sikhs, under the command of Sir Garnet Wolseley, the man Gilbert and Sullivan wrote in a song was the very model of a modern Major General. Wolseley had but two real options open to him, south from Alexandria or the Suez canal, options Urabi was only too well aware of. Urabi was a competent leader and blocked the Alexandria route and if he had just blocked the canal it could have changed everything but he had a sudden crisis of confidence and instead of doing that he thought to seek advice and that came from the Chairman of the Suez canal company, none other than Ferdinand De Lesseps. Why a military man would seek military advice from an engineer I don't know but De Lesseps persuaded him that the Brits would never use the canal for fear of damaging it and so he left the canal alone. It was a disastrous decision as the Brits entered the canal from the southern entrance and the Sikhs from the north. They met up in the middle at a town called Ismailia with the result that they now had only 70 miles to trek to Cairo. Urabi now concentrated his forces at Te El Kabir and awaited their arrival. What happened next was a near disaster for the Brits as their vanguard was surprised by a huge force of Urabi's men and when they were on the point of possible defeat the British cavalry arrived and as it was almost dark, this charge became known as the moonlight charge. It was one of the greatest in British military history, which devastated the Egyptian ranks, who didn't stop running for five miles. The way was completely open to Tel El Kabir and the Brits moved towards their rendezvous with Urabi. |
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majorshrapnel
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#16
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-16 04:58:58Copy HTML When the Brits arrived at Tel El Kabir they were confronted by very serious fortifications. The defenders had built a sand and stone wall on the top of a 120 ft high plateau. In the redouts that had some 70 protected artillery pieces and not the usual desert crap, these were modern Krupp models from Germany and behind all this impressive defensive works were over 20,000 soldiers, armed with Remington rifles with many of them trained in European tactics and many of their officers trained in French military academies. This army outnumbered Wolseley's 2 to 1 and attacking across flat, open ground was a killing field. There was a chink in this armour though, Wolseley had noticed that their advanced picket fortifications were only manned during the day and their sentries abandoned them at night, so he decided upon a night attack, a manoeuvre laden with complications and risk. With everything that could make a noise held down they moved slowly upon the fortifications, guided by a Royal Navy officer, reading the stars. To move thousands of men in the desert darkness, which is pitch black, without making a noise is quite a feat and they managed to get within 150 yards of the fortifications before the rising sun finally exposed them and there before them thousands of red coated men and as soon as the cries of alarm went up, our home grown savages of the Highland brigades fixed bayonets, the bagpipes struck up and they charged, being the first to reach the fortifications. Across the whole length of the fortification Redcoats were beginning to breech them and a vicious hand to hand melee took place. Once ground had been gained the Royal Artillery charged in with their canon and opened fire on the defenders, who were beginning to fall back but put up a tremendous fight, even though many of their officers had fled. With virtually all of the defenders now engaged, the cavalry took the opportunity to wheel around the far right and then took them in the flank. This cavalry also included the famous Bengal Lancers. Cohesion began to break down and panic ensued, with all semblance of order gone the Egyptians fled. Within a few days the British army was marching through the centre of Cairo. Urabi was put on trial by the Egyptian authorities and sentenced to death but the Brits stepped in and had him exiled to their colony of Ceylon, where he lived until 1901 when he was finally allowed back and lived there for another ten years before his death. As a result of Egypt's defeat their colony to the south rose up against them, led by the Mahdi and by taking over Egypt, Britain had inherited Egypts problems along the way. |
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tommytalldog
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#17
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-16 08:04:40Copy HTML The Brits were the best governors of the savages, proven again & again throughout history. |
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majorshrapnel
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#18
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-17 12:19:34Copy HTML Both the Egyptian army and later the Brits now moved into Sudanese territory with the aim of quelling the uprising by the Mahdi (Muhammed Ahmed) and his fanatical followers. Sudan had been occupied by Egypt for forty years and they wanted their independence and the defeat at the hands of the Brits was the signal for the uprising and tribal leader across the land flocked to his banner, one of them being Osman Digna, leader of the Red Sea coast people. With order being restored in Egypt by the Brits the Khedive decided to send a 10,000 strong army of his own, south to Sudan to quell this new uprising but despite being equipped with the latest military hardware, they were wiped out. The Egyptians now moved to relieve their forces besieged in the town of Tokar by Osman Digna and these forces were commanded by an ex British army officer, Valentine Baker, a man who had been thrown out of the army following an incident on a train when his ardour got the better of him and he tried groping a women in the carriage with him. She had to cling to the outside of the train to avoid him. Following a year in prison he joined the Ottoman army against the Russians and distinguished himself there, so the Egyptians imported him but reneged on their promise of a military position and instead put him in charge of the police. Not to worry, Baker took 3000 of these coppers and marched them off to relieve the besieged town of Tokar. Problem was, they were coppers, not soldiers and they weren't happy, in fact they were very unhappy. When confronted by the enemy they fired one volley and fled, being hacked to pieces from behind as they did so, with about 2,300 being killed. The Khedive now begged Britain for help. For a nation of shopkeepers, as Napoleon called us, we needed a financial reason to go into Sudan and there wasn't one but as we were now running Egypt we had in fact inherited Egypts problems. Gladstone had no desire to send British troops there but persuaded the Khedive to pull out of Sudan and we would facilitate that and who would organise that? General Gordon. |
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majorshrapnel
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#19
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-17 01:13:25Copy HTML 3000 British soldiers and 800 cavalry now moved into the Sudan to facilitate a general withdrawal of all Egyptian forces. They were marching on the towns of Tokar and Sinkat to relieve them when news came that Tokar had surrendered to Mahdi forces and the garrison of Sinkat wiped out. The British force now moved onto El Teb where awaiting them was Osman Digna and his 15,000 strong army, equipped with the latest weaponry captured from the Egyptian army and Baker's coppers. The Brits advanced in a square formation with their canon on the inside. Digna had no reason to think this new army would be any better than the others he'd wiped out and fully expected them to fire one volley and run. They did fire a volley but what they did next confused Digna's forces, the British army lay down and the artillery within the square opened up a dual with Digna's canon, wiping them out in short order. The cavalry then advanced and the Mahdists lay on the ground, feigning death until the cavalry passed and attacked them from the rear, killing many. The infantry moved in behind the guns and bayonet charged their whole army. Well of course, they weren't used to this quality of opposition and after a short, sharp engagement they broke and ran. Despite this setback the Mahdi's forces were growing in number and Gordon found himself trapped, although it was likely it was just what he wanted. |
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majorshrapnel
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#20
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-17 01:18:04Copy HTML Has anybody seen the film Gordon of Khartoum? Gordon was played wonderfully well by Charlton Heston. There is a part in it when Gladstone says of Gordon, who was a very religious man, I don't like people who consult god before me. |
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MarkUK
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#21
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-17 01:35:08Copy HTML There a few local links with the Khartoum Expedition in my home town; one fictional the other real. In the film where we see the political goings-on in London Michael Hordern plays Lord Granville, the Foreign Secretary. The actual Lord Granville is buried in the Granville Burial Ground at my local church just five minutes walk away. Inside the church is a marble monument to Lord St Vincent who was killed in one of the battles the British fought on their way to Khartoum. He never lived in the area, but his wealthy aunt did and it was she who erected the memorial in his honour. You're playing chess with Fate and Fate's winning.
Arnold Bennett
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tommytalldog
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#22
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-17 02:33:55Copy HTML Has anybody seen the film Gordon of Khartoum? Gordon was played wonderfully well by Charlton Heston. There is a part in it when Gladstone says of Gordon, who was a very religious man, I don't like people who consult god before me. Heston played Moses, so Gordon was a bit of a mortal after that eh? |
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majorshrapnel
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#23
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-19 11:45:46Copy HTML Following his victory at El Teb General Graham sought, but was refused, Osman Digna's surrender, as he hadn't finished with the British just yet. Graham was to move on and relieve the garrison of Tokar but found it had already surrendered, so they marched off to confront Digna once more and hopefully end his troublemaking. A couple of miles short of his camp the Brits settled down for the night, sleeping in a square formation. The following morning they split their forces and advanced in two squares, approaching Digna's camp, which was just over a ravine but as they peered into that ravine they found it packed with thousands of Beja warriors. At that point the Black Watch broke from the square and attacked on their own, leaving a huge gap, which dozens of Beja warriors flooded into causing chaos within. Soldiers turned inward to confront the threat as other faced out to oppose the fanatical attacks elsewhere. On the outside the Black Watch had taken severe casualties but discipline remained firm both within and out of the square and slowly the Beja were killed and the square repaired. By now the men from the second square had closed up and a general advance began, throwing the Beja back with a combination of heavy fire and on the point of the bayonet. They now took to the hills and the battle of Tamil was over. Within a few weeks of this engagement most of the British army was its way home. |
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majorshrapnel
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#24
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-20 11:44:54Copy HTML And now we come to Charles George Gordon, or Chinese Gordon, or Gordon of Khartoum. One of those truly larger than life Victorian characters who came from a long family line of military men. Although his forebears were infantry officers, he himself had a talent for designing military structures of all kinds and producing excellent maps and so chose a career with the Royal Engineers. He was a natural born rebel, who, if he didn't agree with an order chose to ignore it and this, coupled with a charismatic nature, drew men to listen to and follow him. Whilst assigned in Wales he met two very strong evangelicals, who gave him his dedication to Christianity and I say Christianity because he was a Christian of all branches. The British army has always been loaded to the rafters with extraordinary characters, men who lived charmed lives and none more so than Gordon, who escaped death so many times in his career he truly must have thought himself saintly. His service in the Crimea was exemplary and he was even decorated by the French. The story of his time in China is one of incredible bravery, honesty and integrity. It's little wonder he was held in awe by his men and even Chinese leaders. There wasn't a man or woman in Britain who hadn't heard of Gordon in Victorian times, yet today he is all but forgotten. It was that fame at home that forced the hand of Gladstone to send an expedition to relieve him in Khartoum, as the clamour from the British public gave him no choice. |
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tommytalldog
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#25
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Re：Anglo Egyptian War 1882 Date Posted：2022-12-20 01:36:55Copy HTML And now we come to Charles George Gordon, or Chinese Gordon, or Gordon of Khartoum. One of those truly larger than life Victorian characters who came from a long family line of military men. Although his forebears were infantry officers, he himself had a talent for designing military structures of all kinds and producing excellent maps and so chose a career with the Royal Engineers. He was a natural born rebel, who, if he didn't agree with an order chose to ignore it and this, coupled with a charismatic nature, drew men to listen to and follow him. Whilst assigned in Wales he met two very strong evangelicals, who gave him his dedication to Christianity and I say Christianity because he was a Christian of all branches. The British army has always been loaded to the rafters with extraordinary characters, men who lived charmed lives and none more so than Gordon, who escaped death so many times in his career he truly must have thought himself saintly. His service in the Crimea was exemplary and he was even decorated by the French. The story of his time in China is one of incredible bravery, honesty and integrity. It's little wonder he was held in awe by his men and even Chinese leaders. There wasn't a man or woman in Britain who hadn't heard of Gordon in Victorian times, yet today he is all but forgotten. It was that fame at home that forced the hand of Gladstone to send an expedition to relieve him in Khartoum, as the clamour from the British public gave him no choice. I have heard of this feller but not in the detail above. I always thought the British army was known for discipline & not to follow orders was unusual indeed. |
