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majorshrapnel

Date Posted：2023-07-05 07:14:34

This is an almost forgotten war in world events but has lasting consequences to this day. Gibraltar entered the British empire in 1704 during the war of the Spanish succession when the Royal Navy captured it from the Spanish. During its bombardment of the isthmus some 15,000 cannonballs were poured into it and when they had finished the navy, unsurprisingly just walked in. Under the treaty of Utrecht it was then ceded to the Brits. Over the centuries the strategically vital rock has come under the attention of a number of foes looking to take it for themselves but it has always prevailed and still remains under British rule to this day. It has been under some form of siege, to lesser or greater degrees since the treaty was signed but it's greatest siege lasted from 1779 to 1783.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-05 07:23:56

The siege was an extension of the US revolutionary war, fought against France and Spain, the two allies the treacherous colonists had invited to their aid following Britain's securement of the colonists' freedom from a possible French takeover by the capture of Quebec, thus preserving their freedom and British way of life.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-05 07:51:08

Somehow we colonists don't look at it that way, Art.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-05 08:35:55

I just thought I'd kick off with a wind up Tom.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 08:12:05

Remarkable that such a small and exposed location should be able to resist such a long siege. Equally remarkable is the fact that it was the last siege Gibraltar had to face. Neither Napoleon nor the Germans/Italians in both World Wars placed the rock under siege; the thought was that it was impregnable and the Royal Navy presence was too strong.

There were air raids in WW II but no actual attempt to take it.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:02:41

This war within a war, fought over 4000 miles from the centre of the action, was actually the largest battle by numbers in the whole revolutionary conflict. The Spanish, like the French already, decided to take advantage of the situation to recover Gibraltar for themselves so declared war on Britain in 1779. Gib was and is in a vitally strategic position at the head of the Mediterranean and with a navy like Britains, could control everything that came and went into the Med. The siege lasted three years and seven months and is a testament to the courage, fortitude and ingenuity of its defenders. Britain had already tried to create a naval base in the Med, using the Portuguese seeded Port of Tangiers but it was never really suitable and although vast sums of money were poured into making it a success, it never really achieved it. The politics and dynastic reasons of this war I'll leave to our Royal correspondent Mark, as it would take me a month to sort it out for myself, who married who, what king here, what king there. what queen here, what queen there, who married and what inbred disease did they have, etc etc. You only have to look at a Portrait of the Hapsburg King Carlos of Spain to understand that. Suffice to say the Bourbons took charge of France and Spain. Their alliance agreement also included a joint invasion of Britain, once Gib had been recovered and thus the Brits would be forced to hand back all of the vast territories already taken from them. It's interesting to speculate just what would have happened had their plan worked and the French regained Canada. The newly independent US would then find its former belligerent enemy come ally sitting on its shoulders once again with its former intention of taking the colonies for themselves. Huge forces were gathered for the siege and assault of the rock, including over 60,000 men over 50 ships of the line and ten of the newly invented mortar ships. These ugly little rascals carried just one weapon, a huge mortar canon, ideal for reducing forts and buildings to rubble and with all this in place, the siege began.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:05:56

I once built a mortar ship, which I think is in my loft. I did it just because it was so unusual. I will dig it out and take a few pics of it for you

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:34:34

We had another base in the Mediterranean until the 1780s - Minorca. It was captured from the Spanish in 1708, lost to the French in 1756 (the infamous Admiral Byng incident), restored by the Treaty of Paris in 1763 and finally retaken by the Spanish in 1782.

Now it's a popular holiday resort for Brits, not one in a thousand who flop out on its beaches will know anything of its long lost logistical importance.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:56:52

Here's one off google

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 01:29:44

Along with the historical importance, Mark.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 01:33:07

This war within a war, fought over 4000 miles from the centre of the action, was actually the largest battle by numbers in the whole revolutionary conflict. The Spanish, like the French already, decided to take advantage of the situation to recover Gibraltar for themselves so declared war on Britain in 1779. Gib was and is in a vitally strategic position at the head of the Mediterranean and with a navy like Britains, could control everything that came and went into the Med. The siege lasted three years and seven months and is a testament to the courage, fortitude and ingenuity of its defenders. Britain had already tried to create a naval base in the Med, using the Portuguese seeded Port of Tangiers but it was never really suitable and although vast sums of money were poured into making it a success, it never really achieved it. The politics and dynastic reasons of this war I'll leave to our Royal correspondent Mark, as it would take me a month to sort it out for myself, who married who, what king here, what king there. what queen here, what queen there, who married and what inbred disease did they have, etc etc. You only have to look at a Portrait of the Hapsburg King Carlos of Spain to understand that. Suffice to say the Bourbons took charge of France and Spain. Their alliance agreement also included a joint invasion of Britain, once Gib had been recovered and thus the Brits would be forced to hand back all of the vast territories already taken from them. It's interesting to speculate just what would have happened had their plan worked and the French regained Canada. The newly independent US would then find its former belligerent enemy come ally sitting on its shoulders once again with its former intention of taking the colonies for themselves. Huge forces were gathered for the siege and assault of the rock, including over 60,000 men over 50 ships of the line and ten of the newly invented mortar ships. These ugly little rascals carried just one weapon, a huge mortar canon, ideal for reducing forts and buildings to rubble and with all this in place, the siege began.

Oh, so you saved us from the French not once, but twice Major. Amazing the history I learn on this site & the benevolence of "Mother England."

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 01:47:02

We see it as our duty to educate the world to that fact.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 06:34:58

It pays to be an Anglophile.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-06 07:53:39

Close to where I live, in a village called Croft, is a pub called The General Elliot and I'll guarantee you not one in a thousand boozers there knows who George Augustus Elliot was. Part of the history and politics surrounding and involving this conflict emanates from the Seven Years War, a conflict whose European battles deserve a whole new home of their own, needless to say it catapulted Churchill's great ancestor, John Churchill, The Duke Of Marlborough to fame and the building of Blenheim Palace, a wondrous place that was built by a grateful nation for his great victories against the French. Back to George. General Elliot was in command of the defending forces on Gib. He was a Jock, who had a wide and varied education in the art of killing in Britain, Germany and ironically France and had actually spent a time in the Prussian army. George was truly an all rounder, with a grasp of all things military, from infantry tactics to gunnery and engineering. He had an extraordinary life before his finest hour on Gibraltar and was the right man at the right time in the right place, a habit we have a knack for. Facing off from the enormous forces gathered to crush Gib were just 6000 men, which included three Hanoverian regiments and a new and amazing unit called The soldier Articifer Company, who were to play a key role in the building and constant repair of fortifications and the construction of the truly amazing tunnel system which completely honeycombs the whole rock from top to bottom, miles of it. So, the scene is set.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-07 08:04:30

Before you go on I'll outline the circumstances of the disputed Spanish succession you mentioned earlier and why it led to war.

Charles II, King of Spain died childless in 1700, he was the last in the male line of the Spanish Habsburg Kings. Towards the end of his life plans were drawn up by the European Powers for a succession acceptable to all, but the dying King Charles had ideas of his own. He rejected the European plan and nominated his great-nephew Philip, Duke of Anjou as his heir. Philip was a grandson of the French King Louis XIV (he had married Charles' half-sister) so naturally the French supported Philip's accession upon Charles' death in November 1700, it gave them the possibility of a union of the French and Spanish Crowns under a French-born King and the huge Spanish Empire would come under French influence.

Equally understandably the rest of Europe rejected Philip's accession as it made France the dominant world power. They insisted on the initial plan they'd drawn up but rejected by the dying King Charles - the Spanish Crown to go to Archduke Charles of Austria, he would retain Spain's overseas empire but her territories in Europe beyond Spain itself were to be divided between France, Austria and Savoy.

Inevitably war followed.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-07 02:49:29

Close to where I live, in a village called Croft, is a pub called The General Elliot and I'll guarantee you not one in a thousand boozers there knows who George Augustus Elliot was. Part of the history and politics surrounding and involving this conflict emanates from the Seven Years War, a conflict whose European battles deserve a whole new home of their own, needless to say it catapulted Churchill's great ancestor, John Churchill, The Duke Of Marlborough to fame and the building of Blenheim Palace, a wondrous place that was built by a grateful nation for his great victories against the French. Back to George. General Elliot was in command of the defending forces on Gib. He was a Jock, who had a wide and varied education in the art of killing in Britain, Germany and ironically France and had actually spent a time in the Prussian army. George was truly an all rounder, with a grasp of all things military, from infantry tactics to gunnery and engineering. He had an extraordinary life before his finest hour on Gibraltar and was the right man at the right time in the right place, a habit we have a knack for. Facing off from the enormous forces gathered to crush Gib were just 6000 men, which included three Hanoverian regiments and a new and amazing unit called The soldier Articifer Company, who were to play a key role in the building and constant repair of fortifications and the construction of the truly amazing tunnel system which completely honeycombs the whole rock from top to bottom, miles of it. So, the scene is set.

Hanoverian regiments spent a lot of time in the British Army. Mercenaries like the Wagner Group?

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-07 02:55:04

Before you go on I'll outline the circumstances of the disputed Spanish succession you mentioned earlier and why it led to war.

Charles II, King of Spain died childless in 1700, he was the last in the male line of the Spanish Habsburg Kings. Towards the end of his life plans were drawn up by the European Powers for a succession acceptable to all, but the dying King Charles had ideas of his own. He rejected the European plan and nominated his great-nephew Philip, Duke of Anjou as his heir. Philip was a grandson of the French King Louis XIV (he had married Charles' half-sister) so naturally the French supported Philip's accession upon Charles' death in November 1700, it gave them the possibility of a union of the French and Spanish Crowns under a French-born King and the huge Spanish Empire would come under French influence.

Equally understandably the rest of Europe rejected Philip's accession as it made France the dominant world power. They insisted on the initial plan they'd drawn up but rejected by the dying King Charles - the Spanish Crown to go to Archduke Charles of Austria, he would retain Spain's overseas empire but her territories in Europe beyond Spain itself were to be divided between France, Austria and Savoy.

Inevitably war followed.

The last in line eh. Did he have the Habsburg jaw, 3 legs, hemophilia, or some kind of deformity which accompanies the "royal" blood?

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-07 05:37:27

Pretty much, he was the final product of Habsburg inbreeding. He lived to 39 even so.

Charles II of Spain / Useful Notes - TV Tropes

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-07 05:42:25

Close to where I live, in a village called Croft, is a pub called The General Elliot and I'll guarantee you not one in a thousand boozers there knows who George Augustus Elliot was. Part of the history and politics surrounding and involving this conflict emanates from the Seven Years War, a conflict whose European battles deserve a whole new home of their own, needless to say it catapulted Churchill's great ancestor, John Churchill, The Duke Of Marlborough to fame and the building of Blenheim Palace, a wondrous place that was built by a grateful nation for his great victories against the French. Back to George. General Elliot was in command of the defending forces on Gib. He was a Jock, who had a wide and varied education in the art of killing in Britain, Germany and ironically France and had actually spent a time in the Prussian army. George was truly an all rounder, with a grasp of all things military, from infantry tactics to gunnery and engineering. He had an extraordinary life before his finest hour on Gibraltar and was the right man at the right time in the right place, a habit we have a knack for. Facing off from the enormous forces gathered to crush Gib were just 6000 men, which included three Hanoverian regiments and a new and amazing unit called The soldier Articifer Company, who were to play a key role in the building and constant repair of fortifications and the construction of the truly amazing tunnel system which completely honeycombs the whole rock from top to bottom, miles of it. So, the scene is set.

Hanoverian regiments spent a lot of time in the British Army. Mercenaries like the Wagner Group?

Hanover and GB were united under one Crown from 1714 to 1837, so any war in which either was involved concerned the other. That's why GB became involved in so many European Wars in the 18th century, before the Hanover connection GB managed to stay out of most conflicts on the continent.

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-07 06:55:12

This war within a war, fought over 4000 miles from the centre of the action, was actually the largest battle by numbers in the whole revolutionary conflict. The Spanish, like the French already, decided to take advantage of the situation to recover Gibraltar for themselves so declared war on Britain in 1779. Gib was and is in a vitally strategic position at the head of the Mediterranean and with a navy like Britains, could control everything that came and went into the Med. The siege lasted three years and seven months and is a testament to the courage, fortitude and ingenuity of its defenders. Britain had already tried to create a naval base in the Med, using the Portuguese seeded Port of Tangiers but it was never really suitable and although vast sums of money were poured into making it a success, it never really achieved it. The politics and dynastic reasons of this war I'll leave to our Royal correspondent Mark, as it would take me a month to sort it out for myself, who married who, what king here, what king there. what queen here, what queen there, who married and what inbred disease did they have, etc etc. You only have to look at a Portrait of the Hapsburg King Carlos of Spain to understand that. Suffice to say the Bourbons took charge of France and Spain. Their alliance agreement also included a joint invasion of Britain, once Gib had been recovered and thus the Brits would be forced to hand back all of the vast territories already taken from them. It's interesting to speculate just what would have happened had their plan worked and the French regained Canada. The newly independent US would then find its former belligerent enemy come ally sitting on its shoulders once again with its former intention of taking the colonies for themselves. Huge forces were gathered for the siege and assault of the rock, including over 60,000 men over 50 ships of the line and ten of the newly invented mortar ships. These ugly little rascals carried just one weapon, a huge mortar canon, ideal for reducing forts and buildings to rubble and with all this in place, the siege began.

Oh, so you saved us from the French not once, but twice Major. Amazing the history I learn on this site & the benevolence of "Mother England."

Do I detect an intzi wintzi sense of cynicism in this post Tom?

Re：Reply Topic

Date Posted：2023-07-07 07:05:13

This was the second attempt to regain Gib, with the first being in 1727 but that was a pretty miserable affair by them and I think today's British holiday makers there could have won that attempt. Whilst Britain’s Navy was a powerful and growing force, it struggled to counter the strong and often well led French Navy, allied to the large but somewhat ramshackle Spanish Navy. The presence of a strong Dutch Navy in the North Sea stretched the Royal Navy still further. The army at this time was struggling to recruit the troops we needed to fight the Americans, defend the West Indies against the French and Spanish, combat the French in India and maintain a sufficient strength to retain Gibraltar and Minorca in the Mediterranean. The fault lay with the population's reluctance to fight what many considered to be kith and kin in the war in the American colonies but that changed as soon as their perceived kinfolk allied with the French.

majorshrapnel
	Date Posted：2023-07-05 07:14:34 This is an almost forgotten war in world events but has lasting consequences to this day. Gibraltar entered the British empire in 1704 during the war of the Spanish succession when the Royal Navy captured it from the Spanish. During its bombardment of the isthmus some 15,000 cannonballs were poured into it and when they had finished the navy, unsurprisingly just walked in. Under the treaty of Utrecht it was then ceded to the Brits. Over the centuries the strategically vital rock has come under the attention of a number of foes looking to take it for themselves but it has always prevailed and still remains under British rule to this day. It has been under some form of siege, to lesser or greater degrees since the treaty was signed but it's greatest siege lasted from 1779 to 1783.
majorshrapnel	#1
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-05 07:23:56 The siege was an extension of the US revolutionary war, fought against France and Spain, the two allies the treacherous colonists had invited to their aid following Britain's securement of the colonists' freedom from a possible French takeover by the capture of Quebec, thus preserving their freedom and British way of life.
tommytalldog	#2
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-05 07:51:08 Somehow we colonists don't look at it that way, Art.
majorshrapnel	#3
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-05 08:35:55 I just thought I'd kick off with a wind up Tom.
MarkUK	#4
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 08:12:05 Remarkable that such a small and exposed location should be able to resist such a long siege. Equally remarkable is the fact that it was the last siege Gibraltar had to face. Neither Napoleon nor the Germans/Italians in both World Wars placed the rock under siege; the thought was that it was impregnable and the Royal Navy presence was too strong. There were air raids in WW II but no actual attempt to take it.
majorshrapnel	#5
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:02:41 This war within a war, fought over 4000 miles from the centre of the action, was actually the largest battle by numbers in the whole revolutionary conflict. The Spanish, like the French already, decided to take advantage of the situation to recover Gibraltar for themselves so declared war on Britain in 1779. Gib was and is in a vitally strategic position at the head of the Mediterranean and with a navy like Britains, could control everything that came and went into the Med. The siege lasted three years and seven months and is a testament to the courage, fortitude and ingenuity of its defenders. Britain had already tried to create a naval base in the Med, using the Portuguese seeded Port of Tangiers but it was never really suitable and although vast sums of money were poured into making it a success, it never really achieved it. The politics and dynastic reasons of this war I'll leave to our Royal correspondent Mark, as it would take me a month to sort it out for myself, who married who, what king here, what king there. what queen here, what queen there, who married and what inbred disease did they have, etc etc. You only have to look at a Portrait of the Hapsburg King Carlos of Spain to understand that. Suffice to say the Bourbons took charge of France and Spain. Their alliance agreement also included a joint invasion of Britain, once Gib had been recovered and thus the Brits would be forced to hand back all of the vast territories already taken from them. It's interesting to speculate just what would have happened had their plan worked and the French regained Canada. The newly independent US would then find its former belligerent enemy come ally sitting on its shoulders once again with its former intention of taking the colonies for themselves. Huge forces were gathered for the siege and assault of the rock, including over 60,000 men over 50 ships of the line and ten of the newly invented mortar ships. These ugly little rascals carried just one weapon, a huge mortar canon, ideal for reducing forts and buildings to rubble and with all this in place, the siege began.
majorshrapnel	#6
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:05:56 I once built a mortar ship, which I think is in my loft. I did it just because it was so unusual. I will dig it out and take a few pics of it for you
MarkUK	#7
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:34:34 We had another base in the Mediterranean until the 1780s - Minorca. It was captured from the Spanish in 1708, lost to the French in 1756 (the infamous Admiral Byng incident), restored by the Treaty of Paris in 1763 and finally retaken by the Spanish in 1782. Now it's a popular holiday resort for Brits, not one in a thousand who flop out on its beaches will know anything of its long lost logistical importance.
majorshrapnel	#8
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 09:56:52 Here's one off google
tommytalldog	#9
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 01:29:44 Along with the historical importance, Mark.
tommytalldog	#10
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 01:33:07 This war within a war, fought over 4000 miles from the centre of the action, was actually the largest battle by numbers in the whole revolutionary conflict. The Spanish, like the French already, decided to take advantage of the situation to recover Gibraltar for themselves so declared war on Britain in 1779. Gib was and is in a vitally strategic position at the head of the Mediterranean and with a navy like Britains, could control everything that came and went into the Med. The siege lasted three years and seven months and is a testament to the courage, fortitude and ingenuity of its defenders. Britain had already tried to create a naval base in the Med, using the Portuguese seeded Port of Tangiers but it was never really suitable and although vast sums of money were poured into making it a success, it never really achieved it. The politics and dynastic reasons of this war I'll leave to our Royal correspondent Mark, as it would take me a month to sort it out for myself, who married who, what king here, what king there. what queen here, what queen there, who married and what inbred disease did they have, etc etc. You only have to look at a Portrait of the Hapsburg King Carlos of Spain to understand that. Suffice to say the Bourbons took charge of France and Spain. Their alliance agreement also included a joint invasion of Britain, once Gib had been recovered and thus the Brits would be forced to hand back all of the vast territories already taken from them. It's interesting to speculate just what would have happened had their plan worked and the French regained Canada. The newly independent US would then find its former belligerent enemy come ally sitting on its shoulders once again with its former intention of taking the colonies for themselves. Huge forces were gathered for the siege and assault of the rock, including over 60,000 men over 50 ships of the line and ten of the newly invented mortar ships. These ugly little rascals carried just one weapon, a huge mortar canon, ideal for reducing forts and buildings to rubble and with all this in place, the siege began. Oh, so you saved us from the French not once, but twice Major. Amazing the history I learn on this site & the benevolence of "Mother England."
MarkUK	#11
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 01:47:02 We see it as our duty to educate the world to that fact.
shula	#12
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 06:34:58 It pays to be an Anglophile.
majorshrapnel	#13
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-06 07:53:39 Close to where I live, in a village called Croft, is a pub called The General Elliot and I'll guarantee you not one in a thousand boozers there knows who George Augustus Elliot was. Part of the history and politics surrounding and involving this conflict emanates from the Seven Years War, a conflict whose European battles deserve a whole new home of their own, needless to say it catapulted Churchill's great ancestor, John Churchill, The Duke Of Marlborough to fame and the building of Blenheim Palace, a wondrous place that was built by a grateful nation for his great victories against the French. Back to George. General Elliot was in command of the defending forces on Gib. He was a Jock, who had a wide and varied education in the art of killing in Britain, Germany and ironically France and had actually spent a time in the Prussian army. George was truly an all rounder, with a grasp of all things military, from infantry tactics to gunnery and engineering. He had an extraordinary life before his finest hour on Gibraltar and was the right man at the right time in the right place, a habit we have a knack for. Facing off from the enormous forces gathered to crush Gib were just 6000 men, which included three Hanoverian regiments and a new and amazing unit called The soldier Articifer Company, who were to play a key role in the building and constant repair of fortifications and the construction of the truly amazing tunnel system which completely honeycombs the whole rock from top to bottom, miles of it. So, the scene is set.
MarkUK	#14
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-07 08:04:30 Before you go on I'll outline the circumstances of the disputed Spanish succession you mentioned earlier and why it led to war. Charles II, King of Spain died childless in 1700, he was the last in the male line of the Spanish Habsburg Kings. Towards the end of his life plans were drawn up by the European Powers for a succession acceptable to all, but the dying King Charles had ideas of his own. He rejected the European plan and nominated his great-nephew Philip, Duke of Anjou as his heir. Philip was a grandson of the French King Louis XIV (he had married Charles' half-sister) so naturally the French supported Philip's accession upon Charles' death in November 1700, it gave them the possibility of a union of the French and Spanish Crowns under a French-born King and the huge Spanish Empire would come under French influence. Equally understandably the rest of Europe rejected Philip's accession as it made France the dominant world power. They insisted on the initial plan they'd drawn up but rejected by the dying King Charles - the Spanish Crown to go to Archduke Charles of Austria, he would retain Spain's overseas empire but her territories in Europe beyond Spain itself were to be divided between France, Austria and Savoy. Inevitably war followed.
tommytalldog	#15
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-07 02:49:29 Close to where I live, in a village called Croft, is a pub called The General Elliot and I'll guarantee you not one in a thousand boozers there knows who George Augustus Elliot was. Part of the history and politics surrounding and involving this conflict emanates from the Seven Years War, a conflict whose European battles deserve a whole new home of their own, needless to say it catapulted Churchill's great ancestor, John Churchill, The Duke Of Marlborough to fame and the building of Blenheim Palace, a wondrous place that was built by a grateful nation for his great victories against the French. Back to George. General Elliot was in command of the defending forces on Gib. He was a Jock, who had a wide and varied education in the art of killing in Britain, Germany and ironically France and had actually spent a time in the Prussian army. George was truly an all rounder, with a grasp of all things military, from infantry tactics to gunnery and engineering. He had an extraordinary life before his finest hour on Gibraltar and was the right man at the right time in the right place, a habit we have a knack for. Facing off from the enormous forces gathered to crush Gib were just 6000 men, which included three Hanoverian regiments and a new and amazing unit called The soldier Articifer Company, who were to play a key role in the building and constant repair of fortifications and the construction of the truly amazing tunnel system which completely honeycombs the whole rock from top to bottom, miles of it. So, the scene is set. Hanoverian regiments spent a lot of time in the British Army. Mercenaries like the Wagner Group?
tommytalldog	#16
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-07 02:55:04 Before you go on I'll outline the circumstances of the disputed Spanish succession you mentioned earlier and why it led to war. Charles II, King of Spain died childless in 1700, he was the last in the male line of the Spanish Habsburg Kings. Towards the end of his life plans were drawn up by the European Powers for a succession acceptable to all, but the dying King Charles had ideas of his own. He rejected the European plan and nominated his great-nephew Philip, Duke of Anjou as his heir. Philip was a grandson of the French King Louis XIV (he had married Charles' half-sister) so naturally the French supported Philip's accession upon Charles' death in November 1700, it gave them the possibility of a union of the French and Spanish Crowns under a French-born King and the huge Spanish Empire would come under French influence. Equally understandably the rest of Europe rejected Philip's accession as it made France the dominant world power. They insisted on the initial plan they'd drawn up but rejected by the dying King Charles - the Spanish Crown to go to Archduke Charles of Austria, he would retain Spain's overseas empire but her territories in Europe beyond Spain itself were to be divided between France, Austria and Savoy. Inevitably war followed. The last in line eh. Did he have the Habsburg jaw, 3 legs, hemophilia, or some kind of deformity which accompanies the "royal" blood?
MarkUK	#17
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-07 05:37:27 Pretty much, he was the final product of Habsburg inbreeding. He lived to 39 even so.
MarkUK	#18
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-07 05:42:25 Close to where I live, in a village called Croft, is a pub called The General Elliot and I'll guarantee you not one in a thousand boozers there knows who George Augustus Elliot was. Part of the history and politics surrounding and involving this conflict emanates from the Seven Years War, a conflict whose European battles deserve a whole new home of their own, needless to say it catapulted Churchill's great ancestor, John Churchill, The Duke Of Marlborough to fame and the building of Blenheim Palace, a wondrous place that was built by a grateful nation for his great victories against the French. Back to George. General Elliot was in command of the defending forces on Gib. He was a Jock, who had a wide and varied education in the art of killing in Britain, Germany and ironically France and had actually spent a time in the Prussian army. George was truly an all rounder, with a grasp of all things military, from infantry tactics to gunnery and engineering. He had an extraordinary life before his finest hour on Gibraltar and was the right man at the right time in the right place, a habit we have a knack for. Facing off from the enormous forces gathered to crush Gib were just 6000 men, which included three Hanoverian regiments and a new and amazing unit called The soldier Articifer Company, who were to play a key role in the building and constant repair of fortifications and the construction of the truly amazing tunnel system which completely honeycombs the whole rock from top to bottom, miles of it. So, the scene is set. Hanoverian regiments spent a lot of time in the British Army. Mercenaries like the Wagner Group? Hanover and GB were united under one Crown from 1714 to 1837, so any war in which either was involved concerned the other. That's why GB became involved in so many European Wars in the 18th century, before the Hanover connection GB managed to stay out of most conflicts on the continent.
majorshrapnel	#19
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-07 06:55:12 This war within a war, fought over 4000 miles from the centre of the action, was actually the largest battle by numbers in the whole revolutionary conflict. The Spanish, like the French already, decided to take advantage of the situation to recover Gibraltar for themselves so declared war on Britain in 1779. Gib was and is in a vitally strategic position at the head of the Mediterranean and with a navy like Britains, could control everything that came and went into the Med. The siege lasted three years and seven months and is a testament to the courage, fortitude and ingenuity of its defenders. Britain had already tried to create a naval base in the Med, using the Portuguese seeded Port of Tangiers but it was never really suitable and although vast sums of money were poured into making it a success, it never really achieved it. The politics and dynastic reasons of this war I'll leave to our Royal correspondent Mark, as it would take me a month to sort it out for myself, who married who, what king here, what king there. what queen here, what queen there, who married and what inbred disease did they have, etc etc. You only have to look at a Portrait of the Hapsburg King Carlos of Spain to understand that. Suffice to say the Bourbons took charge of France and Spain. Their alliance agreement also included a joint invasion of Britain, once Gib had been recovered and thus the Brits would be forced to hand back all of the vast territories already taken from them. It's interesting to speculate just what would have happened had their plan worked and the French regained Canada. The newly independent US would then find its former belligerent enemy come ally sitting on its shoulders once again with its former intention of taking the colonies for themselves. Huge forces were gathered for the siege and assault of the rock, including over 60,000 men over 50 ships of the line and ten of the newly invented mortar ships. These ugly little rascals carried just one weapon, a huge mortar canon, ideal for reducing forts and buildings to rubble and with all this in place, the siege began. Oh, so you saved us from the French not once, but twice Major. Amazing the history I learn on this site & the benevolence of "Mother England." Do I detect an intzi wintzi sense of cynicism in this post Tom?
majorshrapnel	#20
	Re：Reply Topic Date Posted：2023-07-07 07:05:13 This was the second attempt to regain Gib, with the first being in 1727 but that was a pretty miserable affair by them and I think today's British holiday makers there could have won that attempt. Whilst Britain’s Navy was a powerful and growing force, it struggled to counter the strong and often well led French Navy, allied to the large but somewhat ramshackle Spanish Navy. The presence of a strong Dutch Navy in the North Sea stretched the Royal Navy still further. The army at this time was struggling to recruit the troops we needed to fight the Americans, defend the West Indies against the French and Spanish, combat the French in India and maintain a sufficient strength to retain Gibraltar and Minorca in the Mediterranean. The fault lay with the population's reluctance to fight what many considered to be kith and kin in the war in the American colonies but that changed as soon as their perceived kinfolk allied with the French.